Self-taught vs. having had a teacher

[Janel]

While considering a response tonight, I began to wonder about this subject. I am self-taught, my "training" having been pottery classes in college. Carving grew out of drawing, and wood carving grew out of having carved porcelain.

 

Having recently visited a netsuke carving class, I felt a little envy for the students, but I think that I would not trade the path I grew in to get to this point. Some training now, or points of interest classes, would prove to be quite appealing to me, since I have an idea of what I would like to learn.

 

How did you, the members, learn to carve? I guess a good other question could be tied to this one, what inspired you to start carving?

 

Janel

[Ed Twilbeck]

I am also self taught, and I would not have traded it for another way. I started with wood working as a need for furniture building for myself and family. I picked up a lathe and started wood turning, from there to custom box building, and then to carving. Some of the carvings were with the boxes and turnings. I did this untill Katrina took it all away.

My father was a furniture builder for the New Orleans Furniture Factory for 52 years. I picked up some of his skills. But mostly all my wood working was self taught or from reading about it.

All of my schooling and training was in the Fire service that I did for about 35 years. Retired from the Fire service in 2003 , now working for the Beau Rivage Casino till March of 2009 and then I will Be a full time carver and a full time retiree.

I am looking to do more carving and hope to get better at it.

[fkvesic]

A good question, Janel, and many thanks for putting it up.

 

I was introduced by a friend of my father to netsuke when I was very young, then by the father of a college friend. I was also lucky enough to live within a bus ride of three of the London museums that had collections. In that sense, netsuke were always there. Then, too, I've always loved miniatures - illustrated manuscript paintings, snuff boxes, miniature painting, etc. As well, I'd always cried off the round arts, preferring to work with flat, or flattish surfaces, but on and off throughout the years it kept niggling that I'd not tried them, but I knew I didn't want to get into the mega-scuptural thing. I compensated by attending some woodwork classes and making some basic furniture - cots, coffee tables, boxes, bookcases - but returned to working with textiles again.

 

About eight years ago, some friends brought back and gave me a resin copy of the cat in a kimono netsuke from one of the New York museums. Though I disliked the resin, it was an opportunity to study the form and the details, so I bought very basic tools, equipment and wood and started cutting and took up some whittling again (something my father had taught me). That summer, I developed chronic eczema which badly affected and affects my hands, so the bought goodies had to be put away. As the eczema seems now to have settled into seasonal flare-ups, I determined this year to use the autumn/winter months to start netsuke carving. Carving for six months of the year will be better than nothing.

 

Having found this site, I wouldn't say I'm being entirely self-taught. Yes, it's not the same as having a teacher over your shoulder, but it is encouraging and has resources I wouldn't have found elsewhere.

[Mark Strom]

I am self taught and think that there are distinct advantages to traveling this road. On the other hand I can see that there are advantages to having training that would have made a huge difference in the beginning and in the present as well. My carving is on commission and covers a broad range of work. Part of the reason for this was to push the limits of my skills and to learn other styles of carving. My carving is also more European based as far as tools and technique are concerned.

 

Being self taught helped me to develop my own style faster and without the influence of any one person or style. I also broke many "rules" of carving and in the process discovered techniques, tools and developed methods that have created my own style. There is also the joy felt when doing things the hard way works...an often overlooked and rewarding part of the journey. There is the streak of rebellion and independence that is so much of my personality...I don't like being told how or what to do. Being self taught gives you limitless and unrestrained exploration...I have relished this throughout my career.

 

I still envy those who have classic training. The classic European style of carving and training (from where I sit) is built around good design, tool control and speed. The design is built around contrast, light and shadow. This is not easy to learn when you are fighting the tools and wood. Tool control is an acquired skill and there are tricks and styles that can be taught. It is amazing what can be done with a #5 gouge just by using different parts of the blade not to mention turning it over and using it to round. Economy of motion means a lot if you are a full time carver, not to mention getting through the waste removal to the "good" stuff. Being taught these classical styles also opens possibilities that might have been overlooked otherwise. You can't go wrong having a good vocabulary of skills to draw from.

[Natasha]

Hi Janel!

I'm also self-taught! I tried to enter the Institute of Art here, but I was told that I was not gifted! So, I always had a wish to be an artist. Many books and the Internet are my teachers!

[Janel]

Hmm, I wonder what the criterion is for "being gifted"? You are free to follow your own creative determination, and are more gifted than most!

Janel

[sergio]

Hi Janel, hi all. I'm a self taugh to, my teachers are all the other carvers from all the world, i meet them in books, on the web, in the museum, and here!

[Toothy]

Hi Janel and the other guys an' gals

 

I too am self taught. My interest began when I was very young. My Dad was an air force pilot during WWII and in his spare time - between sorties - he wittled and carved to keep occupied using whatever wood and tools he could find. During a stint in the UK I remember him making chisels from files using my uncles bench grinder. Chisels were scarce and hard to find. My Mom was artistic - she painted in oil and between the 2 of them something rubbed off on me! As a young school boy I saved my pocketmoney and bought a Millers Falls set of 6 chisels for 17/6 (remember lsd anyone?) These are still going strong and I still have the original box with the price on it.

I have a friend, a retired director of education, who agrees with me that one learns from what you have been shown, be it from a teacher, a demonstration, a book and these days a video (DVD or internet). I read and re-read and re-re-read and try what I have read. This way I learn. In all fields where I see some one working I watch carefully and ASK questions. Fellow carvers NO QUESTION IS STUPID. Ask and learn and to those who know, give a simple, clear honest answer. I have books on metal work, tool making, simple hand tool woodworking, machining, finishing, drawing (I'm hopeless), art of the old masters, archeology and, among my favourites, Netsuke, figure & face carving and decoy duck carving. I also have friends who are artists who happily crit my efforts.

Do I still need a teacher? Yes!. On a trip to the UK in 2003 I booked a course on painting decoys which confirmed for me that I was on the right track and hadn't misunderstood the books. And I learned from my teacher.

As a retired dentist I love small carved works .

 

Toothy

[Mike Ruslander]

Self taught, too.

[DreamingDragonDesigns]

I'm self-taught as well, and not just in carving, but in all of the artforms I'm interested in.

 

As far as your second question goes, I got started in carving after my dad gave me a chunk of reconstituted jet to see if I could somehow use it in my jewelry work, perhaps making cabs out of it to set, as he had seen a couple simple cabs I'd made from some wood scraps he'd given me. (I don't consider those cabs to have really been carving.) I made him a gift from it a few months later when he was in the process of realizing that the path of being Pagan was right for him after finally asking me about my own path with truly open ears. (He'd been dissatisfied with Christianity for awhile, and honestly a lot more unhappy than he realized.) The gift was the piece I call "Focus". I used diamond and steel burrs I already owned for doing work with my silver smithing, and tried to create something that fit the hand and "felt right". The intent was to create something to use as a grounding focus for magical work and for meditation.

From there, the rest just made sense. I kept carving.

LJ

[laurent GERDIL]

I am self-taught like everyone else!!!

 

And as natascha when I tried to enter to school of art, I was told I was not good enough!

So ,I started carving my knife handle,............. and I continuous!

[Malcolm]

I always liked Einstein's definition of education as being what's left when you have forgotten everything you learned in school.

 

I studied with an excellent sculptor, Jose De Creeft, at the Art Students League in New York City. He was a great example of an artist devoted to his art, but not really so great as a teacher, and besides it was the '60 when everything was pretty free form, and the attitude was "just do your own thing".

 

Later I studied pottery in Italy, and did get good start at training in that in a school there. But most of what I learned about pottery making came later, from working in production studios -- in towns that were pottery centers near Florence. The school training was just a very elementary start, and the real training came later.

 

Most of whatever little I know about sculpture, I learned on my own.

 

Malcolm

[E George]

Hi Everyone,

 

It appeals to my individualistic spirit to claim that I am "self taught". However, my history says otherwise: art classes in public school, studio art and art history when I majored in biology in college, water color and ceramic classes in adult ed classes, and sculture with live models at a junior college weekend course. I got my wife, who is a professional artist, to teach me sketching. I also took machanical drawing in high school and that aided in drawing my own patterns for carving projects. Plus I benefited from members of a local woodcarving who gave seminars in carving technics. Also I have a long biblography of books and magazine articles. And of course there is all this wonderful information and artisitic ideas here on The Carving Path - thank you Janel.

 

To me the real meaning of "self taught" is the acquistion of information and skills that allows the artist to express the talent that bubbles up from within and that means some mix of the two learning methods. So, I encourage anyone interested in carving to check out evening classes at the local high school , non-credit classes at the local college and the local art league. When at the book store, check out the art section and also the art and crafts magazines even if they don't directly apply to carving.

 

Learn as much as possible about nature and art so that your talent will florish.

[Don Barnhill]

I have no one around close enough to teach me carving. Everything I have learned has been on my own and from books, or from here. I have more books on carving than does the local librbary and I might add, better quality too.

 

There is an amazing amount of information here and people are willing to answer your questions in one fashion or another.

 

Having a teacher exposes you to all the little tricks they have learned in their carving careers. While they may share it here it is not the same as actually watching a person like Janel or Cornel carve a piece. I use these folks as examples because I am amazed at their work.

 

Not that I don't like most of what I see here and most of it is far better than my scratching at a piece of wood.

 

To all I say "Thanks for sharing your knowledge".

[Buels Gore Wood Carving]

I am still self teaching. I find that blundering through a new project gives me lots of reason to reach out to others for better ways to do the job. Formal training would have may have helped me avoid some of the problems I confront, but there is a certain efficiency in finding information that has a purpose right now.

John

[redhand rik]

PhD from the university of bloody knuckles baby... actually my grandfather "taught" me how to carve by showing me the things he had carved and telling me to try it. then he showed me how to sharpen knives and i learned that you slip a lot less frequently with sharp tools but the damage can be exponentially worse. that's when i learned about how much force is appropriate for the material and to be concerned about where the tool would go if the material broke or the tool slipped. then frustration set in because the picture in my head didn't match what i was carving. and now? well i'm working on it... this is the best website i've found about carving... thanks for being here

[jonbouy]

I am self teaching. Just starting out, no previous carving experience. Looking at books and this site plus anywhere information is available.

 

John

[Irishcarver]

I am very new to carving and I am self teaching. The internet and books are great tools. I would love to spend some time in New Zealand with a traditional maori carver. Someday! This forum is a huge help for us newbies though.

[Woodworm]

Self taught as well and still fumbling.

Inspiration came from our world around (me)us.

My first carving tools I made from hard coathanger wire.

They were not to good. Then I bought a set of six Marples.

Self taught may be a bold statement -- for I have found here on this website mentors of all ages showing teaching sharing.

Self taught or guided I do know I will not live long enough to acheive a level I would hope for. But I do know I will live long enough to keep trying.

What more could one ask for?

[polymita]

Dear fellows:

As I supposed the 90 percent of us are self-taugh carvers, and Yes we are a unusual breed that fought many battles with as lot of effort and sacrificies just to reach our goals and dreams. But fellows the knowledge that you obtain from a master carver directly and from art schools also is very important, ¨breaking rules¨ is part of ourselves but know the rules is also very useful when you defend your work in front of mediocry people believe me. Many of us suffer of what a called ¨geographic fatalism¨ because many of us born in countries without miniature carving traditions and recognized schools, many of us are born in poor houses without rich parents that help us with money to follow our dreams, many of us are far out of the places where you can buy the propper material you want it, and even many of us are without the posibility of travel to the places we want because our origins (like me as cuban born)...so that things can demolish the spirit of a miniature carver and to be a self-taugh was a challenge very difficult to us, but I´m still thinking that above all the knowledge that can come directly from a master and a school is fundamental and clear our way-path very much. I´m happy for the miniature carvers that could study in german, japanese and italians miniature schools, I´m happy for the miniature carvers that could study in former Art Schools, we don´t show envy to that fellows, they had just better luck and I cheer that luck,...but when you see a guy that have the posibility to study in miniature schools and owns a workshop with everything doing mediocry pieces and a self-taugh guy without tools and propper elements doing a marvelous pieces of Art then you realize that this self-taugh miniature carver is awesome, in another words, many of the members here are amazing people showing without any doubt that the self-taugh way is an strong way to learn and understand the Carving Path. The only I want to sentence it´s that to be a self-taugh it doesn´t mean that we reject the academic way in art schools, we must respect the former art schools knowledge, we must to be much better than the people pointed us with their fingers laughing because we are self-taugh and never show contempt-scorn related to the art schools knowledge...that´s my advice and the way I saw myself as a self-taugh carver that never reeceive knowledge or help from anybody, I still believe there are good friends around there and nice people that can help others and I don´t hate or envy carvers from schools of art. I found in this site enough people fighting for their dreams that I returned to my spiritual carver path again...THANKS FOR THAT!!!...an aermy of brother in arms.....ADRIÁN

[Yuri]

Self-taught, though my grandfather did show me how to sharpen things. He was a toolmaker by trade.

I do feel, like a lot of others here, that being self-taught has very strong advantages. Looking back, I'd say if I could start again, I would very much welcome tuition in making and using tools, also being taught about materials, but I'd be far less enthusiastic about being taught what to do with them. To me that feels more like trainig for some production work.

But I also realise that what works well for one person is not necessarily the best for another.

[Woodworm]

Self taught as well. Tho what I do is much different than the works here.

 

"Not gifted" ???? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm -- I do not understand that one either Janel.

If that were even remotely true, none of us would even give a three thousand year old piece a second look.

Nor the scratchings on a cave wall.

 

Be well, Bill

[Yuri]

Ah, that's got to do with selection criteria in the Old World, especially what is Eastern Europe today.

Generally speaking, there are far more applicants to university seats than there are places allocated. This all has to do with state beurocracy's obsession with "planning" . (I have lived in Russia, and even gone to university there, so I know what I'm on about.) Anyway, the only way to do that in the arts is to have entry exams, based on about 2 centuries old assumptions, and weed out people that are in the eye of the examiner not up to scratch. In reality as often as not it is down to who greases the palm of the examiner the most. Yes, cynical, yet true. I mean, you can't get away with outright incompetence, but what is left when this is thrown out is still far more than what the art schools take on per year. So that's where the baksheesh comes into it.

The entry exams are normally things like still life drawing, portrait drawing, nude drawing. Natasha, correct me if things changed since my time. (about 30 years ago)

[Natasha]

Hi Yuri!

I tried to enter the local institute, to study drawing, but I was told that I was not gifted.... it was in 1986. I began to carve in 1999, I felt that I had not enough knowlege, I had a wish to go to the institute of Art and try to enter again. I met some local painters and sculptors, they were very old and respected persons, they told me that I shouldn't enter the institute, I already have my style in sculture, they were afraid that the institute would "breake my hand". So, I'm totally self-tought! I'm sure everyone can educate one-self in the Arts! I don't mean the medicine and other very serious professions, just the Arts!

We all can find any information in the Internet, books, we must want to study, to see everything and keep positive feelings in our hearts! I think our collectors are the best examiners in our ways!

Yuri, nothing changes since your time!

[polymita]

Yes, you´re right fellows, and like Natasha said ¨everyone can educate one-self in the Arts¨, at least in this times with Internet and Libraries you can had access to many fundamental topics, but I´m still believing that If you are a gifted artist and a master or an Art School cross into your life earlier that´s something really good and we can´t deny the importance of schools and masters tradition, my point it´s that we are a rare breed of artists as miniature carvers but we must understand the importance of art schools and masters...If I had a son and he shows artistic predilection at least I will try to lead him into the art school If I can If not then he must try the hardest way through self-taugh, but I never reject the importance of former art school studies. I´m proud to be self-taugh and I never regret my origins, don´t misunderstood my point please, we can argue in this space and we have different ways to see our truths Ok, life with colors is better than life in black and white you don´t think so??? A last thing to Natasha, she knows I admire her in every sense even before enter this site, but I want to tell you my friend that I´m self-taugh in Malacology and I wrote two books, many articles and I made several conferences, so in Zoological Sciences you can be someone without University studies!!!, watch me!!!, I couldn´t study zoology-biology (a serious profession Ok) because when I finished my Special Troops Military Service the night distant courses in Cuba ceased, besides I´m not good in Maths, so I start by myself alone and more than 15 years after I can challenge anyone in my homeland in field works, but malacology is not my spiritual path as I felt related to miniature carving. I just tell this to you Natasha to show also that in Zoological Sciences at least for taxonomical, ecological and conservation studies you can do something valuable Ok. In Cuba my landscape and figurative paintors friends mostly are self-taughs but the best of them studied in San Alejandro Art Schools, I think the so called ¨gift¨ arise in or out the art schools, as you said guys is a GIFT, and as I said years ago in a primitive art conference ¨the technotypological aspects can develop the arts but the creative elements inside the artists are the true meaning of evolutive arts¨, in another words an artist without the gift of creative ideas is nothing, many are amazing artists technically speaking, they can show amazing habilities but without propper and original ideas they will be always imitators or a blank page in art history...and that can happen either to self-taughs than to art schools graduates. I repeat guys, please don´t misunderstood my words, we are just talking like friend and every one of us can had different opinions. Good luck to you and my best wishes...ADRIÁN