Making of tools

[Christophe]

Hi everyone,

 

First, I do apologize if I create a new topic where I will ask question that might have been answered already.....But please, do believe me when I say that I've been spending hours looking at the different posts and I did use the search function, but I might not be so bright.....

 

So I started bone carving few months ago and now I would like to try to "tatoo" them therefore I am in need for engraving tools.....And of course I don't really want to buy them, it's not fun, not rewarding, not interesting and expensive ...And of course I would like to make them like the one describe in S.Myhre's book.

 

So here I am, I've read Jim Kelso Gravers thread, by the way thank's for all the information, and also the advice of Toscano (thank's for the link to the picture of the all process of making them), and I know that I should use HSS to start with:

 

-my first question is do you have to grind the rough shape, with a mizzy wheel or a grindrer for example, or can I achieve everything by hand with a whetstone? And what kind of whetstone should I look for? I don't have access to a grinder and I have only 150W solar panel installation And I'm not sure to be clever enough to go into metalsmithing....

 

-my 2nd question, I've read about the crocker sharpening device would it holds round blank?

 

-My 3rd one, I've recently read about GRS standard sharpening feature and dual angle sharpening feature, does anyone know if you can use them on a whetstone or do you have to buy the expensive power hone?The only reason I'm asking is because a guy I met told me that to be able to make correct angle for your engraver without any device would probably take you 5years of training.....and without correct angle your engraver might never work?!

 

I do undesrtand that achieving those tools by hand, if possible, is time demanding but time is the less expensive option and somehow I'm not into industrial production so.... and also I do believe that the time you put in the making of your tools will give them a bit of yourself and therefore already fill them with your creating energy....

 

I hope that some of you take some time to answer those silly questions?

 

Thank's

 

Chris

[Janel]

Hi Chris,

 

No question is silly when there is a need to learn. I do understand that navigating the past posts and topics on TCP is unwieldy, even with the SEARCH function. I have read each and every post from January 1995, and know that there are informative topics to be found on this subject, but finding them can be challenging. It is good to know that you found a couple of good topics to read.

 

I am not experienced with the engraving of metals, if that is your goal for the making of tools to exacting angle measurements. Nor do I have experiencing with the "tatto" or scrimshander's tools for marking the surface of carved bone or ivories, and do not know what might result in the points needed for their respective, specific functions.

 

If the tools are to be used for carving bone, dense and hard woods, or mammoth tusk materials, my guess is that exact angle dimension is not quite as necessary as it is for metals engraving. A good angle relationship for intended function, and clear sharpness aimed for different sorts of scraping, planing, carving or undercutting, and for some tools the ability to engrave finer lines, should be fine. Such tools have served me well, and I have done the tool making without power sharpening or tool-making systems. There is always room to learn more from others, and that is why this forum is a good resource for any of us to seek knowledge from others.

 

My sharpening stones are all water stones. Some folks use oil stones, but that is not my experience so I will not write about it. I have four stones that I keep in water (some are Japanese made) and one very coarse, two-sided stone (coarse and less coarse, sorry I acquired it in the 70's with no idea of degree of cut). The stones go from very coarse to 6,000, including 250, 400, 800, ~ 2000, 4000, and 6000. I don't always use each of them when sharpening or making a tool. Just what seems to be needed for the task at hand.

 

For the final touch, I also am experimenting with a leather strop charged with something black, which was acquired again in the 1970's, so I have no idea about what exactly it is or what it was initially intended for in my tool kit. It is a rather thick piece of leather with a fairly deep suede nap to hold the powder. It may be too heavy for my little tools, but I am trying it as a touch up method between using the stones, while carving. I have also used single layer box/cardboard (ie., cereal box type) with a waxy honing compound rubbed onto it.

 

To do the initial shaping from round stock I use the coarsest stone with water to establish the desired faces and angles, working on both or all faces (I make some tools with three faces), equally. Then, the next stones in order of coarseness are used, all the while being aware of holding the flat plane of the face at the same, intended angle, and working each of the faces equally as needed. It is a meditative and repetitive process.

 

It is very important to keep the face of the stone flat and not grooved. To keep the face in good working condition, I will occasionally take an absolutely flat, smooth and water proof surface, and adhere wet/dry sandpaper (degree of coarseness determined with the need) to it with water. Then with plenty of water, will move the stone on the surface until a purely flat surface is regained. Rinse the sandpaper and stone periodically to keep it working well.

 

The Japanese stones are used in tandem with a soft, white stone that looks like plaster but is not. I cannot remember the name of it, sorry. It appears in the archives on the forum, sorry. I believe that it is used to create a slurry on the water stone to keep the metal from building up on the fine stone surface.

 

One technique for hand-making tools is to count identical numbers of strokes on the opposing, matching faces, and if more faces, the third face for instance, use enough strokes to keep it in the functional proportion intended for the tool.

 

Secondary angles are not something that I have used extensively, so someone else will need to write about that.

 

I hope that some of this is helpful to you.

 

Janel

[Christophe]

Hi Janel,

 

Thank you so much for your answer....this is really what I needed to read, you just confirm all the bits and pieces I did gather while searching through the older posts.

I am not really into engraving metal, looks nice but not my thing, at least not for now. Therefore I'm quite happy that I don't need exact angles...will make my life easier

 

This leather strop you are talking about must be the same as the one used by barbers to sharpen their straight razor. After looking into it, it seems that any kind of leather can be used and the difference with stone is that you can apply pressure, it also seems to have a polishing effect.

 

For this white "plaster" stone used with japanese stone, as far as I know the only thing I know about japanese stone is that you can use a Nagura stone which you put in water also and then you rub it on the surface of your stone to create a slurry that will speed up the process of sharpening but....this is only useful on a stone which grit is between 6000 and 8000.

 

By the way, I agree completely with your idea of meditative action when sharpening, this is what meditation is all about concentrating the front of the mind on a repetitive process that the rest of the mind can find peace.

 

Also, I read somewhere that old HSS drill bits could be used for making carving tools, but it was said that usually the opposite end of the drill bit is not tempered, therefore here is my question, is it true and if yes what sould I look for when tempering the tool to know that I'm not over-heating it?

 

And one last one, anyone would know a site where to find round blank of HSS, 'cos in europe it seems like they don't know about it or they don't want to sell it.....

 

Thank's again Janel, was really so perfect answer.

 

Be water

 

Chris

[Christophe]

Hello everyone,

 

Soory for the last question about tempering the tools, the informations were easy to find, oups....

Therefore for any newbie like me, to temper you should heat to a dark blue color if your aiming at wood or bone carving and straw to dark straw if aiming at metal carving. Thank's to Debbie and Danny who are the one providing the answers.

Still, if someone knows about the opposite side of a drill bit being tempered or not, I take the answer

 

Thank's to all.

 

Be water

 

Chris

[lopacki]

Chris,

The top part of a drill is not hard, in fact it is soft enough to use a file on.

 

Merry Christmas ............. All my best ...... Danny

[Christophe]

Hi Danny,

 

Thank's for the answer. Have a nice chrismas.

 

Be water

 

Chris

[Janel]

Here are a couple of images that were taken while Komada Ryushi demonstrated tool making, tempering/hardening techniques when I visited him in 2008. I will post the photos out of context from the process since I am away from home at the moment, and at another time would like to describe the whole demonstration when I have my notes in hand, to get all steps in proper order.

 

This is the moment before removing the tool from the heat the color having been achieved. The metal is quickly plunged into oil for quenching. He has both a thin oil and a thick oil for different rates of cooling. I am unsure which was used when, that information is in my notes.

 

 

 

What you see here is a metal structure that Ryushi uses on his torch that allows him to place the tool directly into the flame, or to use the more controllable heating of the tool by placing it on a metal plate for heat transfer.

 

Janel

[Toothy]

Hi Christophe

 

I make most of my tools from 'silver steel' and B01 (in UK) tool steel. Both are bought in the annealed condition and are shaped with files (differnt grades) and then with stones in a rotary tool (Dremel type). Hardening is done with a butane gas flame and oil. Tempering can be done with a very gentle gas flame or +- 1- 2 hrs in the oven at 160 C.

 

Keep looking under the various topics as I and other better writers have described, in detail, the hows and whys of tool making.

 

Good searching, have fun and the best of luck.

 

Toothy

[Christophe]

Hi,

 

First, THANK you so much Janel for posting the photo and when you get back home, I would love to know about this 2 oil used for quenching and of course if you have time for the whole demonstration explanation....then be my guest

 

Second, Thank Toothy, I didn't know about the silver steel and your right about the various topic, so many answers you can find. Actually I started this post 'cos I was a little bit unsure about all the infos that I did collect from the previous thread....

 

And third, Many thank's to all of you so nice to know that the information is out there and people are ready to try offer it.

 

I will post photos of the tools I will make as soon as I will have finished them, or at list try to finish them.

 

Be water and all the best for 2011.

 

Chris

[JP Anderson]

Jim Kelso did an excellent tutorial on making a graver on this forum:

 

http://www.thecarvingpath.net/forum/index....hl=dowel+graver

 

Heat treating isn't that hard. Try with some scrap steel and test your tempering with a file. If it won't bite it's to hard and will chip. Soft, the file cuts easy and the tool dulls easier. A good steel to make tools from are the spring tines that hay farming equipment use to pick the hay up with. They are about the right diameter.

 

John

[Toothy]

Hi Chris

 

Wont you complete your profile so that we may know where on earth you live. It makes it that much easier to lend a helping hand.

I also live on earth and am thus an earthling but from the southern most part of the African continent.

 

Go well and success in 2011

[Christophe]

Hi,

 

Thank's JP Anderson for the tempering tip and for the link with the tutorial by Jim Kelso, I knew about it and it's really good and helpful but like I said I open another topics to make sure I did understand all the data I did gather form TCP I guess I'm a bit unsure....

 

And Toothy, I cannot actually be more precise, 'cos I live in my van on the road, therefore I move quite a lot and don't have a fix adress.....so my profile is pretty much completed...All the best for 2011

 

Chris

[JP Anderson]

Chris,

 

The heat treating and tempering makes sense only after you give it a try. It's far easier done than explained. If your version of cherry red is not hot enough the tool will not be hard. Heat it up and try again. A small torch is all the heat you need. A gas stove burner also works just fine. I usually use water to quench for gravers.

 

I scrounge my tool steel from old farm equipment. The spring tines/teeth that pick up the hay are good steel and a good size. Check the tool boxes on the equipment as extras are carried. Anneal first, file to shape, heat treat, temper. Flat graves are the easiest to make and versatile.

 

I use stones I scrounged to sharpen. For final finish you need a true, fine, hard stone. The face on a flat, most any graver for that matter, is 45 degrees with a 5 degree heel. Look at the cutting edge with a magnifier under good light. If it reflects ANY white llight it's not sharp. It must be sharp, that is the key. It takes some effort.

 

Give it a try and it will all make sense.

 

John

[Christophe]

Hi everyone,

 

here's in another newbie question, tempering is done after sharpening or before?!

 

Sorry, like I said many times I am a bit slow.....

 

Thank's

 

Chris

[Claire]

http://www.followingtheironbrush.org/viewt...f=57&t=1494

[Christophe]

Hi Claire,

 

Thank you so much

 

Take Care

 

Chris

[yloh]

Most people do sharpening their tools, is start grounding from the body of the tool, a master told me that it should be grounding begin from the tip instead of the body. His reason is, begin from the body, before you reach to the tip, the tool is already too hot, it will anneal your tool faster than you see.

[Glen G]

Something else to consider for tool shrapening needs are diamond products. Even high speed steels can be shaped and honed quickly with some of the products out on the market.

The flat steel plates impregnated with diamond particles made by"EzLap" are great for setting working angles and the small sizes 1" x 3" are inexpensive.

[Christophe]

Hi Everyone,

 

I first started this post 2years ago, and to be honest, I've been trying to make tools, but life, laziness (trying to be honest here ) and lack of confidence lead me far away from completion....

But lately, I took some time to think about what I really want to do, either I stop carving, either I really try (meaning I need some proper tools). In the end , it is not because things are difficult that we don't try them, but because we don't try them that they are difficult.

And so I finally did it, and because many people here gave me answer, so that they gave me a bit of their time (the most important thing in life) I thought that I should post my first attempt.

First picture is what I was trying to work with until recently.....

Following pictures are the newly made one, from old drill bits and handle are oak and cherry tree.

At the moment I'm still trying to achieve the number 2 tool from S. Myhre's book, and obviously trying to get used to work with the one I made...so it is really practice time at the moment.

Thanks again for all the advice I received here.