Billy Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Recently I have seen people posting or talking about 'smelling' the dust, and it concerns me that some people new to carving may not be aware of the dangers that bone and shell dust can create. Believe me, I know of carvers first hand who have died from dust related illnesses. So I would like to share with you my simple and reasonably inexpensive dust extraction system (See photos below). After going through a number of noisy, dirty vacuum cleaners, I invested is a simple system that is cleaner, quieter, a lot more effective and all for the cost of a good vacuum cleaner. First I got a 1hp dust extractor (pic 1). They are quiet, can run all day and are suited to the fine particles you get with bone carving. (pic 2) I then hooked up 100mm flexi-pipe that connected to a t-section, they are then connected to shut-off valves which allow me to control the vacuum from one point to another. The pipe then hooks up to a reducer that feeds a 50mm inlet on top of the bench. (pic 3 & 4) The 50mm flexi-pipe is then channeled to your desired vacuum point. You can set up as many vacuum points you want. You can go for a bigger extractor. But even with this system, I still wear a good dust mask! These systems can be tailored to however you want them to. Please feel free to ask any questions. I hope this helps. Kia ora, Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janel Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Thank you Billy for emphasizing this issue of dusts. I appreciate seeing the photos that illustrate how the hoses and extractor. Is it possible for you to show us the dirty end, where the dusts end up? And, how do you deal with the collected materials when it is time to do so? What sort of mask do you use? Janel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hi Janel. Pic 5 here shows the dust bag for collection. You can feed these extractors straight outside if you want, but I use the bag option. They have a large capacity and with the fine grain that dust produces, you'll find you only have to empty them once in a blue moon. Very clean, although some care should be taken when emptying into the bin. Pic 6 shows the mask I use. I use one that has a good coverage over the face and is nice and comfortable. The filters can be changed when needed to. I find that using the vac system as well, the dust particles are very limited and the filters last a very long time. Hope this helps. Kia ora, Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janel Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thank you, Billy. Is the bag made of special fibers that are rated for really fine dust capture? I just had a thought, could one use vacuum cleaner bags that are disposable? (I know, it is not a "green", or re-useable solution.) There might be a variety that is rated for allergen filtration, and with that I wonder if the particle size of the dusts that we create are larger or smaller than the allergen particles. Also, I wonder if the vacuum bags would need a stronger motor, as in would the bags be a good match for vac motors like yours. Having to not mess with emptying a cloth sack appeals to me. We have a built-in vacuum in our studio(s) (pottery dust and wood dust), and we do not enjoy emptying the big canister with its cloth filter when it is needed. The cloth needs a lot of shaking out on a breezy day, with a lot of breath holding. This vacuum does vent outside, which is why we have it. Janel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 The particular extractor I have is suited to fine particles, this would include the bag. I would imagine you could get these bags separate, but not sure what the price would be so not sure if you would dispose of the bag along with the dust. I've only emptied this bag once and it was only because I was moving overseas. They do take a long time to fill if you are only filtering bone dust. I think the most important time to use a mask is when cleaning your workspace, including emptying the bag. I would imagine i would only have to empty this bag once a year. It can get a little dusty but I take my time, and do it outside of course. The good thing about a good extraction system is it keeps dust off everything else, and provides a clean and healthy workspace. With normal vacuum cleaners there are a number of problems. The fine dust destroys the vacs very quickly so you have to have a filter system anyway to save the motor. That also affects the power of the vac. Also, most cost effective vacs will only run for a limited time until they heat too much and shut down. And also they are generally a lot noisier that your average dust extractor. Kia ora, Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janel Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hi Billy, Thank you for the further explanations. I am not familiar with the sort of extractor that you have, and wish that I was. I like the idea of setting up stations for collection, with a quiet motor. My shop is small, and each of four locations needs a different sort of collection. The band saw has a hook up spot for the 4" hose that goes to a large and noisy collection unit, that also cleans up wood shavings from the sawing and also the lathe, though I do not run that collector while I am using the lathe. There is an overhead dust collector that is run when the lathe and/or the band saw. If I am using a belt sander, as a stationary tool, I set it up by my bench top collector. This is also where I carve, so the bench top collector catches the debris from when I am using the microgrinder, filing and sanding. The scraping tool hours are usually without the collector running. I would like to have the dust collection take less real estate on the carving bench. There are posts and images from various artists with good set ups that show good alternatives, but I have not done anything about it yet. I could also build an insulated bumpout on the outside of my part of the studio that could house the noisy and space wasting collector and refilter the returned air. I have seen one of those but only daydreamed of doing that for my studio. Since what I do often makes lots of shavings or mess, I would need to clean out the filter bag more often, unless there were a primary catchment bucket that preceded the filter bag. Some shop/vacs have that as an option. but those are noisy machines. It will be something to look into if/when I make the move to a quieter and more remote motor/extractor. I appreciate the good reminder to maintain a healthful environment in the workspace. Janel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony N Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 love the set up best i have seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampsonman Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Great set up and great pics of it too. I work with a lot of stone and although i try to do everything wet i find myself also doing some dry work and am very carefull to make sure i have my respirator on whenever i might create dust but the one thing that gets me is that even though i try to clean up well sometimes i see big clouds of dust when i drop something heavy on the bench. No matter how well i sweep up after work there always seems to be dust in the nooks and crannies of my work area and a setup like this would really help keep it contained before it gets to rest in those tight areas. Maybe some day i will get more organised and make a set up like this but in the meantime thanks for the pics and ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Nicol Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi Billy, Thanks for the display of your setup, and the tips it is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 You're welcome Bella. How's that tooth coming along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Nicol Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Fabulous, thank you for asking! Wow. After over a month at least I've figured it out. A native fish I've always wanted to meet is a sturgeon, and I looked at it last week, and it wanted to be one just like you had mentioned. What a wonderful material I can't wait to try it again. I've started to work with it and as a material it really does rightly demand respect, and I enjoy that aspect. Thank you again for asking! Billy, do you also go by Gareth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Yes Bella. My name is Gareth Barlow, my nickname is Billy as my friends often call me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Nicol Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I had a feeling! But you can neverbbe sure until you ask. Wow, what a privilege to have access to your knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Kia ora Bella. Happy to help where I can, anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yloh Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 thanks for sharing. yloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod L. Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ya know Billy, I really like your setup for dust collection. It has made me think of all the low tech ways that I have moved the dust away from me to avoid inhaling the noxious stuff. I remember doing my first few antler carvings and hocking and snorting the dust up, and thinking there has to be a better way for a poor boy to get some relief. I have carved outside on windy days with the wind to my back to keep the dust out of my face. The drawback to that is that the winds have a sense of humor and will change directions on at some really in opportune times and blow the dust into your face. I have used fans blowing behind me and one in front of me facing away from me to push/pull the dust away. The big drawbacks to this are that you still have dust EVERYWHERE, and if your shop is unheated like mine is it gets cold in the winter time. I have a small heater under my bench/desk that I work at out in the garage. the fans blowing the dust away, also blows away the hot air. I do wear my filter masks when I think about them, and Yes I know I should wear them all the time. I know dust lung/black lung etc is a nasty way to leave this world, as is emphysema. I recently got told by a bone carver on Deviantart that he uses a dust collector that is made to collect nail dust from doing manicures. anyone have any thoughts on it? Peace, Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothy Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Billy and Janel and all the others, Billy I have a similar set up. When I built my workroom / studio about 20 yrs ago I had the builder leave a "soft spot" in the side wall. This was positioned to allow the later installation of a dust extraction system. My unit is a 1600w extractor situated in a dedicated lean-to (actually a 'hang-on')outside. Recirculation is a no-no as the filter size is way larger than 5 microns which is the minimum for dust. The piping is 100mm soil pipe with an bare earth wire inside, needed to earth any static electricity build up. This pipe then is connected to my suction drawer over which I do most of my carving, certainly all that is done with machinery. The suction is also used for the band saw, sander, RAS and lathe (inefficiently). The most noise is generated by the air flow bur the radio is perfectly audible over it. Janel, Please spend a little time and effort and improve your extraction system. If re-circulation is needed your filter Must be able to filter down to 5 microns. This is the size that can bypass a humans own filtration system and land up in the lungs. I have just lost a friend from lung cancer caused by dust. I haven't been on-line for quite a while and it is good to be back Toothy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janel Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Toothy, Thank you for the encouragement. I will check on the degree of particle entrapment. Janel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hey Toothy. Yes I think we agree the importance of good dust extraction is paramount. I've recently moved countries so we're renting a place at the mo which leaves me no choice but to have a temporary setup. We're looking at buying a new home in the near future so I'll be building a new workshop. Dust extraction will be something I'll be concentrating on, and having the unit external will certainly be under consideration. I always have the radio or TV going when I carve, and although my unit is far quieter than your average vac, it still leads to a more volume than usual. Thanks for the interest. Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus homestead Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Billy, Thanks for this important info - I am just getting into carving antler and bone and my current setup is entirely inadequate. I've got a mask just like the one in your photo that I have used when sawing or sanding cedar for our kayak frames - they work very well. I will at least start using that immediately. I have been doing a lot of my carving so far with gouges and such - they don't generate the tiny particles it seems and I have been trying to do my sanding wet. How do you sand your pieces?(You get a beautiful clean line and polish on everything I've seen) Thanks for sharing all you do Blessings, Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hi Magnus. Glad you're addressing the safety issues I have discussed. I sand dry under a constent vac, and often with a mask, also. I use 120 grit to help shape the piece. For final sanding I go from 320 to 600, and the odd time go to 800. I find the 320 is adequte to get rid of tool marks, and 600 provides a smooth finish. I then buff on a wheel with a white polishing compound. Thanks for your interest. Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian nilson Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 i have had to work with dust collection, mostly in the dental lab. unfortunately i have gone through thousands of dollars worth of dust collectors and recently just switched to a system like yours. i got the dust collector motor from harbor freight $150(like yours with a bag on the back) the bag is good but not good enough for very fine particules. the other problem i have with it is the dust first goes through the motor housing then the bag. in my experience this always eventually wears the bearings down and kills the motor. to solve this i recommend putting a filter before the intake on the collector. there are 'ash vacuum collectors' (available from fireplace and wood stove shops that you can use. get the kind with out a vacuum motor. essentially this is a metal can with a filter in it. this will take care of the small dust and keep it out of your motor and lungs. i also discovered that even though these type of collectors are quiet you can make it even quieter by using hard pvc pipe rather than the ribbed tubing. this gets rid of the whistle from the tube. ill attach a pic of my set up. i made it out of plywood and a piece of acrylic. (No ones art is worth cancer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Good stuff Brian. Something more to think about for my new workshop. Cheers. Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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