Do You Know What This Is?

[Roy M]

I was given these by my father in law a while ago and havnt had the courage to saw into them and make anything as of yet partly because I dont know what they are. They feel amazing but do have cracks in which may make them liable to break. They are solid with just a small depression in each end.

 

The other pic is of Manu an Arapawa Ram from Durville Island, my favourite place in the world. If anyone can tell me how to remove the horns as a keepsake for the owner, yet keep the best bits for carving I would appreciate it. I have absolutely no idea about this at all and may well be incorrectly hoping that the portion nearest to the skull will be good for carving.

 

Many thanks

 

Roy

[Christophe]

Hi Roy,

 

Regarding the 1st picture, I would say that it is likely to be warthog tusk.

For the rest, I just can´t say....

 

Hope this help

 

Christophe

[Phillip Montgomery]

on the first pic i agree with christophe, they are either warthog or if very large then possibbly hippo teeth i dont have in this pic a good sence of scale on them the second pic looks like a mountain goat skull of some kind

[Yuri]

Definitely warthog. I have a few of them, they are the very last still legal ivory. You can get them in a number of Southern African countries, I got mine from a guy running safaris there, and bringing them to NZ. (yes, legally)

 

As to removing horns, the traditional way is to boil the whole lot. That should loosen up the connection between the horns and the core. If you are lucky, you even might end up with a carvable core, though it will be extremely porous and saturated with fat, by now probably in a state of decomposing that doesn't bear thinking about. So get a respirator before starting.

I just got given the suggestion that it's a drysdale sheep, an old one. Google it, you'll see. It could also be merino. (In both cases gone feral, so it could acquire a really impressive set.)

[Toothy]

Warthog tusks. I have a few as yet uncarved.

No idea for the skull.

[lopacki]

Billy,

I think the skull is of a Big Horn Sheep, if so it is very collectible because of the size and curve. I would do a little checking around on the web you might be surprised at it value as is. I would not do a thing with it until I did the homework.

 

All my best ............ Danny

[Roy M]

Thanks for you replies, it is good to have them confirmed as warthog tusks.

 

I can tell you guys that the skull is from an Arapawa sheep, who lived here on the farm for years and died of natural causes.

 

Cheers

 

Roy

[Yuri]

Arapawa is simply the name of an island on the other side of Marlborough. There isn't really a breed called Arapawa, it's just that there is a genetic line that survived there as it was too isolated for som 150 years.

[Roy M]

I didnt know that! A quick googling found this interesting information about them.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arapawa+sheep

[lopacki]

I noticed that someone in this thread said that Warthog ivory is the only legal ivory, this may be true with fresh ivory I do not know. If you are looking for ivory for carving I think a person is better off either using mastodon or fossil walrus.

My reason for saying this is the fact that both of these ivories are very old and have been exposed to various conditions that pretty much have stabilized it. Also the colors that this material is available in is truly amazing, all the way from nearly pure white to almost black with all of the brown tones in between. I even have a few pieces that I would call orange.

If you go have a look at Natasha or Oleg’s work on the forum you will get a good idea of what I am talking about.

All my best ............ Danny

 

Below is an image of a fossil ivory Eagle I carved way back in 1980, this was a piece of the upper bell end of a tusk.

 

 

[Roy M]

Wow, thats amazing. How do you come by walrus or mammoth ivory? Are you able to purchase it near where you live or do you have to fossick for it?

[lopacki]

Roy,

Not sure where you are on palnet Earth but in north America both types of ivory are available by searching online. I have a bit of this walrus Ivory I purchased in the early 80's that I will either trade or sell, as I do not carve Ivory anymore. If interested you can contact via this forum or at daniel@lopacki.com.

 

All my best ....... Danny

 

Below from my website

Fossil Walrus Ivory Celocanth Carving With Ruby Eyes on Agatized Fossil Base Chasing a Silver Squid

 

[Yuri]

Roy is in New Zealand.

You are perfectly correct in saying that fossil ivory is legal, of course it is. I meant living ivory.

Import of mammoth ivory into NZ is complicated by the need for a lot of paperwork. It is possible, though.

 

Roy, if you are in one of the port towns, when there is a Russian ship in port, sometimes they have some mammoth ivory for sale. Though they ask an arm and a leg for it. (try talking it over in the company of a bottle of vodka, that helps. (no kidding)). Reason being that they know they can always sell any ivory to the Japanese on the way back. The status of it is a bit tricky. While it's perfectly legal here, in NZ, they normally took it out of Russia without paying taxes, so on their side it is illegal (not the material, the tax thing.) So it's up to your conscience.

And the horn cannot be Bighorn sheep, as that was never introduced to NZ.

[Roy M]

Hey there Yup im in a the port town(city) of Nelson I do see the odd Russian ship although I dont know if you just walk up the plank giving it "have you got any ivory for sale!, I do have some 42 degrees vodka?" LOL. Im still at the stage where I should be practising on cattle bone. I was in such a rush to get the boy to school today I missed out on a fresh roadkill NZ falcon this morning.

Trying to find some time for my next project, hopefully something more contemporary.

[Yuri]

Actually, that's exactly how you do it. A friend of mine did it just like that, and got a section of mammoth tusk. (not very good quality, but still.) In Nelson, too.

Oh, and don't forget to haggle. It's essential. That's where vodka comes into it. Though don't ever try to drink them under the table. You haven't got a chance.

[Roy M]

Nice one Yuri, how much does one expect to pay for some mammoth ivory? I am a bit of a seaman myself, (no pun intended) I could arrive at their ship in my kayak. I paddled into the port a few weeks ago and saw a couple of Russian ships. Some friends and I had paddled from French Pass, circumnavigated D'urville island and then paddled right on back to port Nelson (where there is a bar you can paddle right up to!)

[Yuri]

I know Nelson, lived in Appleby for a few years myself. (And in Marahau before that.) Also know about circumpaddling Durville island, a friend of mine did it. They (two of them) kept on furiously paddling against the current, only to wach the reference point standing in exactly the same spot after half an hour.

Anyway, dunno about climbing onto the actual deck of a Russian boat. You can be sold for a slave, you know... (OK, OK, that's bad taste.) I met some Russian sailors on shore, asking around themselves if anyone knew anyone interested in mammoth ivory. The simplest way is to walk up to the first one you see and ask. They are very friendly lot, as a rule. Maybe too friendly. (I am part Russian myself, but lived in the decadent West for more than half my life, so I'm out of touch with current patterns there. They changed a lot since my time.)

Normally they will have very little, if any, English. Mammoth ivory in translation is

мамонтовый клык or

клык мамонта

Pronounced mamontovyy klyk or klyk mamonta. The Y is a kind of hiccupy ee, and the a is as in fast, or car, not as in apple.

[Roy M]

Thanks Yuri, Marahau is a nice place to live. I work in the Abel Tasman as a guide 8 months of the year. There are some spots with furious current races on the island, all part of the excitement. How much money are we talking about exchanging for Ivory here, i mean is it quite expensive?

 

Lopacki your colecanth is awesome.

[Yuri]

These days, I haven't a clue, really. In any case, the Russian sailors don't, either. Or at lest not a very firm idea.

It all depends on the quality of the ivory. A lot is, frankly speaking, rubbish. Well, perhaps not quite as bad, but not far. Just like with wood, it's extremely important how you dry the ivory. The best ivory has these points: It is relatively fresh (that is, no older than some 8-10 thousand years), it has been frozen in snow/ice, rather than buried in soil, let alone in stone matrix, and, most importantly, has been dried very slowly in clean air.(not next to a hot stove) A lot of ivory is ruined by too impatient drying, and as a result delaminates and cracks everywhere. It is still usable for small stuff, but it's not very much use, really, for anything more ambitious. Unfortunately this, of course, is the most readily accessible.

You just have to ask what they want for it, decide if it is anywhere near what you'd be prepared to pay for it, and if it is within range, just haggle. I suppose you can get some idea by looking at some American prices asked by dealers there. I can't tell you the Russian prices, as there seem to be none on the net, but if you contact Natasha onthis forum, she can help you with that.She's in Moldavia, but buys her material from Russia.

We might even have met, I was a fixture in the Arts Unique gallery for years. Moved away some 7 or 8 years ago.

[Yuri]

I had a quick look on some carvers' forums in Russian. Couldn't find much, but came across some info.

First, it all goes by quality. The ivory is sorted apparently right at the first sale, there are some 5-6 grades, from top to rubbish. As a pointer, the outer layer, if I understood the term correctly, used for knife handles can go for from about 120NZ$/kg to some 400+NZ$/kg. There were some brownish pieces mentioned, suitable for sculpture, with some hairline cracks, but not too bad, going for about 120/kg.

(For American readers, 1 US$ = about 1.3 NZ$ at present , if you wish to comment.)